Yes it’s really true, more than the governor!
Yes it really is true. In Sauk Rapids Minnesota our superintendent makes more than the governor of Minnesota and nearly double the national median superintendent salary. So what is going on in this central minnesota town where MCA scores for 11th graders are in the tank, yet we are, and have been, paying our superintendent nearly double the going rate. Other administrators such as principals and assistant principals are also paid above the state averages.
Sauk Rapids-Rice is a school district composed of one high school, one (1) middle school and three (3) elementary schools. There are 3,757 students and according to the department of education we employ 223.3 full time equivalent teachers in our district. We have a total population in our district encompasing much of Benton County, Rice and Sauk Rapids of just 25,000. The BoardWatcher finds it absurd that we need to pay double the going rate to manage a grand total of five schools. The BoardWatcher thinks Someone ought to do something about that!
Yes, in this small rural central Minnesota town, we pay our superintendent more than the governor of Minnesota. So, what’s up? is Tim Pawlenty underpaid? Not exactly–it turns out that we actually pay our superintendent more than 32 of the 50 governors in the United States. Yes, that’s right there are only 18 U.S. governors with higher salaries than our superintendent.

Sauk Rapids-Rice is now in the bottom 20th percentile state wide in 11th grade math scores. Yet, our little town can proudly boast that we will pay our superintendent $135,500 in 2007/2008 and $140,200 in 2008/2009, nearly double the national median superintendent salary of $75,000 and over 30% higher than the Minnesota State average salary of $101,849.
In addition, we will provide a 100% severance package in addition to a full suite of fringe benefits that would make a GM executive green with envy. For those of us who don’t have severance packages — district tax payers will pay 100% of the superintendents’ final year salary upon termination of his contract over and above retirement contributions and other accumulated cash-out features. So when the superintendent quits or retires we will be paying the equivalent of at least 4 entry level teachers. In fact our superintendent is actually already drawing down the banked severance money at a rate of $15,000 per year apparently to ease the burden of the one time payout.
While this is apparently legal and even becoming common in Minnesota, the BoardWatcher questions the wisdom of spending tax dollars in this way when at the same time MCA II scores are declining and teachers are being cut. The BoardWatcher has done some research and found that the Minnesota State Auditor has also questioned these “exceedingly large” compensation packages for school superintendents throughout the state and particularly in the Twin Cities Metro area.
What Does the State Auditor Think?
The state auditor researched this question at length in 2003 producing the 91 page Special Study: School Superintendent Compensation. In short, the State Auditor was critical of the overly exuberant compensation packages that superintendents have negotiated since the salary cap was lifted in 1998. Prior to 1998, government employees including superintendents were limited to 95% of the governor’s salary. In 1998 this limit was lifted for superintendents (only) in efforts to make compensation packages more transparent to taxpayers. In particular, there were increasing problems valuing total compensation packages because of the institution of large severance packages, automobile allowances, leave cash-out deals and other methods of hiding compensation through deferred benefits. School districts were essentially dodging the salary cap by hiding benefits.
The intent of lifting salary caps was to reduce complexity of compensation packages so that tax payers could participate in the negotiation process. It was thought that removing the salary cap would allow districts to pay superintendents more transparently, primarily through salary rather than by hiding benefits in deferred compensation packages. The idea was to allow taxpayers to get a handle on out of control compensation packages by making the negotiation process more transparent.
Unfortunately, in 2003 the State Auditor found that both salary and deferred compensation packages have increased dramatically since the cap was lifted. The State Auditor said “The idea behind removing pay limits for superintendents …was to squash the temptation of hiding compensation in benefit packages.” She emphasized that “Taxpayers should be outraged by some of the severence packages found in some superintendent contracts” in reference to the $245,000 total cash-out payment for the Hastings superinetendent including six months salary, six months leave, unused vacation time etc. Bear in mind that Sauk Rapids taxpayers have promised the superintendent 12 months salary and other assorted cash-outs. Has anyone asked the board how big this number really is? If the State Auditor is right they may not know.
In general, superintendents have negotiated sweetheart deals taking them over and above common pay levels for other government and private sector employees with similar responsibilities. The State Auditor also found that compensation packages are so complex that “Districts themselves often do not know how much their superintendent is owed in compensation”.
What is it about Sauk Rapids Minnesota that requires the services of one of the most highly compensated superintendents in the state? Some moderate sized rural districts that are similar to Sauk Rapids actually reduce these administrative costs by consolidating with nearby districts and even subcontracting administrative services. Some distrcts do not feel the need to have a full time superintendent. It should be noted that in addition to the superintendent, Sauk Rapids also employs a business manager and a curriculum coordinator (recently re-labeld as assessment director) so it is reasonable to question the need for all three positions. Remember we are talking about 1 high school, 1 Middle school and 3 elementary schools. This is not 3M.
I’m an Underpaid CEO
In efforts to rationalize these excessive compensation packages superintendents often argue that “I’m the CEO of a moderate sized business”. We have heard our own superintendent use these words. Unfortunately not everyone agrees with this analogy to business CEOs. Martin L. Gross in his 1999 book The Conspiracy of Ignorance recommends that school boards should 1) hire a school manager (not an EdD or PhD) to run day to day activities of the district including and especially the financial responsibilities, and 2) hire a “true scholar” with a PhD in any subject except education to direct and improve the curriculum and testing and quality of teachers. He additionally advocates that state legislatures completely elimination the EdD degree and the associated title of doctor with it’s “false impression of scholarship”. Our district has a business manager, a curriculum (oops assessment) coordinator and a superintendent. If Gross is right two are company and three are a crowd.
Dave Ziffer on the IllinoisLoop.org wrote: “The ‘underpaid CEO’ notion is based upon a grossly inaccurate view of what CEOs do and why they are so highly paid. CEOs do not simply sit at the top of their respective management chains and direct operations.” On the contrary, Ziffer argues that the duties of a school superintendent are more akin to the mundane duties of a mid level corporate manager.
Outside Consulting and Lobbying:
In addition to this big city compensation package our superintendent is also permitted to work as a consultant in any field, including education, provided that it does not interfere with his duties as superintendent. Most notably our superintendent works as a “facilitator” for P.S. Minnesota. The stated mission of this organization is to fix the broken funding formulas in the state of Minnesota. Unfortunately, fixing the funding formula according to P.S. Minnesoata includes adding an additional $2 Billion to the cost of the education system. This is spun as a good deal because these additional funds would come from the State rather than from property taxes. Unfortunately, it really doesn’t make much difference at the end of the day given that all state tax dollars originate in the same taxpayer pockets. This is a slick sales job intended to take money from hard working taxpayers and put it in the hands of education bureaucratspreparing for the “21st century”. Sorry but China and India are already there.
The BoardWatcher fully supports the rights of citizens to pursue their interests on their own time. However, we are acutely aware of the potential conflicts of interest that may arise when our Superintendent is changing hats from lobbyist, err..ugh…Facilitator, seeking a $2 Billion increase in funding to his day job working for taxpayers to hold down the costs of education. Bear in mind as education spending increases the less absurd the P.S. Minnesota funding framework begins to sound. After a while you start to lose track of the Bs and Ms in those cost estimates. The BoardWatcher is not the first to wonder about the structure of these education lobbying groups.

This potential for conflicts of interest is in all likelihood only of theoretical concern. However, the BoardWatcher is also aware that P.S. Minnesota, lists only one point of contact (our superintendent) and one phone number on it’s web site. Yes you guessed it the political group P.S. Minnesota lists the main phone number (320 253-4703) for the Sauk Rapids-Rice School District office as it’s only point of contact. Apparently P.S. Minnesota is enjoying the benefits of our tax dollars in the form of telephone and clerical services in the district office.
Given this number is listed for contact to our superintendent in his role as facilitator for P.S. Minnesota one can only conclude that he is conducting at least some level of P.S. Minnesota business from within the district office on our time. Apparently Victoria used the districts services in December of 2006 while trying to inquire about P.S. Minnesota. Ask yourself if P.S. Minnesota represents your interests and if our superintendent and his staff should be fielding calls at the district office.
In addition to the apparent subsidy our district is providing P.S. Minnesota in the form of telephone services, there appear to be other Enron like arrangements that may be problematic. The District is also a member of the lobbying group Schools For Equity in Education (SEE). In August 2006 the district paid SEE membership dues of $3,690. In turn, according to their web site, SEE is a partner organization with P.S. Minnesota which is headed up (oops, I mean “facilitated”) by our superintendent.
It is not clear if SEE and other partner organizations pay membership fees to P.S. Minnesota, but P.S. Minnesota apparently generates income somehow as they contracted with a consulting firm from Colorado to tell the legislature that a $2 Billion increase in education funding is necessary. In any event, our tax dollars have been spent to pay SEE to lobby the legislature for the progam being promoted by P.S. Minnesota that would increase the cost of our education system by $2 Billion. This under the guise of funding equity. At the same time we are providing at least telephone services to front P.S. Minnesota in their efforts to achieve the same ends.
Some Basics to be Further Elaborated
- The district claims that people (We aren’t sure who?) are concerned with class sizes. Yet, according to the Minnesota Department of Education there are 3,757 students and 223.3 full time equivalent teachers in the district. This equates to a student to teacher ration of 17 to 1. Why does the district characterize this as a problem? This sounds quite reasonable to the BoardWatcher. Notice that the district simply claims that the class sizes are “larger” but never actually publishes the number. Who is concerned over an average class size of 17 per teacher? The BoardWatcher challenges anyone to find a statement of student teacher ratios on the ISD47 web site.
- The district claims it is necessary to raise an additional $2.8 million from the property tax levy. The BoardWatcher believes that the primary objective in the near term should be to get enthusiastic motivated teachers back in the classroom. The district laid off 18 probationary teachers earning approximately $30,000 to $35,000 in salary and at most an additional 30% ($10,000) in benefits. Conservatively, it should take no more than $810,000 (18 x $45,000) to put these teachers back in the class room. Why is the district asking for $2.8 million, nearly 4 times the amount needed to get these teachers back to work? What are the assumptions behind this amount. What new services are being proposed to take up the additional $2 Million? The taxpayers need an itemized list of the proposed new spending.
- The BoardWatcher believes that the district is not currently taking advantage of nearly $1 Million in available State funding. To accept this funding would require that the district institute the performance based pay system called Q-COMP. WE will have more on this in subsequent posts, but suffice it to say it is extremely disturbing that this source of State funding is not being utilized, much less even being discussed on the ISD47 web site. Why is the district seemingly ignoring this ready source of essentially free money? District residents have already paid income, sales and other state taxes to fund this program, yet the district is not bringing any of that tax money back to the district.
Attend Meetings and Ask Hard Questions:
District voters need to attend meetings and ask the hard questions. What will the money be spent on? New Programs? Improvement to existing programs? How will the district reduce spending to stay out of trouble the next time inflation catches up again?
Upcoming public meetings will be held by the district:
October 8, 7:00 PM at the Rice Elementary Media Center.
October 22, 8:00 PM at the SRR High School Community Room (Door 1)




October 2, 2007 at 6:07 pm
You hockey parents ought to take your vendetta elsewhere because you are fooling no one. You will make the rest of the district children because of your spoiled “I did not get my way” tantrum. You ought to be ashamed.
October 2, 2007 at 6:12 pm
I was so pissed I forgot to put rest of the district children “suffer” in my first comment. Lies and falsehoods, who cares as long as you get your way. What a load of crap!
October 2, 2007 at 8:14 pm
So you are not going to make personal attacks. Well that is what you said in your message to me.
Well what the heck is that huge billboard doing up on highway 10.
You’re getting awfully high and mighty.
Did you also know that our Supper Intendent dose not get his Room and Board paid for like the Governor.
You know very well a salary is a hell of a lot more than the money you make at the end of the year.
Not to mention I believe the Governor is just a Lawyer and OUR SUPPER INTENDENT IS A Doctor!
By the way why don’t you tell people who you are instead of being this hidden fixture of doom.
You really don’t care about any kids but your own!
October 3, 2007 at 7:26 am
I logged on to Q-COMP. I have to only wonder how extreamly expensive it would be to impliment this. The sheer man hours that would be required by the school district I believe would be more costly than the gain.
Sorry but I am never open to more mandated testing by the government. What is with putting all these strings to funding?
Just stop testing my kids and my school. I and all the parents will let the school know if they are failing my children.
Just like you I have the right to move my child to a new district, homeschool my child or send them to private school.
I believe the government dosn’t know a thing about kids and what they need.
My child did poorly on the state reading scores. However what the scores forgot to record is that this chid was being diagnosed for a terminal illness. The school was nothing short of Ultra Supportive! They made sure tests could be retaken and homework was not missed and also that the sheer understanding and empowerment for my child was there. The state just gave me an outcome of a test that ment squat.
I thank God every day for the wonderful teachers and the support staff as well as the administration at Sauk Rapids.
The most important things are not test results that can only be taken on a certain day.
October 3, 2007 at 9:45 am
I THINK WE SHOULD JUST SEND ALL OF OUR MONEY IN. WE ARE NOT
RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO SPEND IT. DOCTOR OF EDUCATION CAN AND HE WILL SPEND THE MONEY WE HAVE NOT MADE YET..
October 3, 2007 at 11:20 am
I must be the only one. I can’t understand how the school
Board approved his contract $300 a month vehicle bonus,
$15,000 a year safety net $140,000 a year how can he pay
his bills. I FEEL BAD 4 HIM WE SHOULD REDO HIS CONTRACT..
October 3, 2007 at 12:05 pm
Jaded,
We are extremely saddened by your situation with your child. We are also greatful that you had a positive experience with the district in this very difficult time. We would have expected nothing less. We also believe that we have quality teachers and we support them.
That said, all is not well in our schools, in terms of both funding and performance. We agree that Q-comp may have some negative aspects, but we also believe that the district owes it to the taxpayers to explore and provide alternatives. Other districts have implemented the plan. How is it working out? Did the program cost more than the funding? There is no discussion of this funding opportunity on the ISD47 web site at all.
Thanks for your thoughtfull input.
October 3, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Mike,
I checked and our supper makes $135,500 a year. Where do you come up with that bogus crap.
He makes less than St. Clouds Supper who has been doing his job for a shorter time then ours.
For the record I believe the national average for a school our size is about $140.000. I think we are getting one hell of a deal.
My dentist makes a lot more in 3 months then this guy. My dentist also had to go through a lot less schooling.
I am sure he can pay his bills. Just because you may have made bad choices in your life dosn’t mean you should not support the children of this district so they can make good choices.
October 3, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Sorry I made a mistake he will make $140,000 next year..He has to survive on $135,000 plus benefits. As long as he takes of the teachers it is a great deal for him. Just look at the results he really makes a BIG difference for
your children. Sure hope he can get the BIG PROPERTY TAX
INCREASE..
October 3, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Mike,
I never said he would make that next year.
I think he dose make a “BIG difference for my children”.
The “BIG PROPERTY TAX INCREASE” will only cost people who live in $150.000 homes $201 a year. That is less than $17.00 a month.
Remember he is a taxpayer in Sauk Rapids as well.
October 3, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Not to pick but just what does the Doctor do for the
children? Or maybe what does he do for the teachers?
I just need to know since I may have to pay more. I
don’t see any outstanding test scores..He says we need
more $ is that for him? Just a thought cancel his contract
if the scores don’t improve. Then hire 4 entry level
teachers..
October 3, 2007 at 6:13 pm
Mike he is a good man, I have met him maybe you should too. You would see what load of manure these people are spreading. Alot of districts have tried to hire him away including St. Cloud and he chose to stay for less money. Pass the levy and we can restore entry level teaching jobs. If we do not I can only hope girls hockey is the first girls athelete program to get the axe. This is pure politics on their part, it has nothing to do with the welfare of the school district, just riling people up with mis information to get at the superintendent because he stood up for what was fair and right based on past history and what the district was responsible for. The meedling parents to the nth degree.
October 3, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Does it really matter who is behind this information? The bottom line is our children are suffering. Our test scores prove it. After reading the facts on this website I am glad someone has the guts and time to inform the public.
As far as girls hockey being elimimated, that would be a shame. The girls are just as important as the boys.
October 3, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Bumblebee,
I guess you like half truths. Test scores can only mean the teacher is good at teaching to a test and even the “boardwatcher” could do that.
Hay here is another little fact someone spouted off to me tonight at relegion.
Did you know the Govenor of Minnesota makes more than the President?
October 3, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Yes it does matter who is behind it. To have an important issue like a levy affected by misinformation when enough voters already do not understand how a school district gets its revenue and how it operates is shameful.
Enough programs and jobs have already been lost thru lack of proper state funding that anymore are really going to be devastating. And to let some girls hockey parents vendetta(this website and billboard) againest the superintendent torpedo the rest of the students over a locker room issue that is not even school property is shameful and deceitful. I do not even have children i school anymore and I am outraged at this BS website and its shameful misinformation and darn near outright lies.
I need to stop before I pop a vein. Please get your own “facts” elsewhere not from this poop heap.
October 4, 2007 at 8:39 am
TOM I BET YOU WANT EVERYONE TO GO TO THE WEB SITE THAT
LISTS THE SAUK RAPIDS H.S. PHONE #. MAYBE OUR DOCTOR
WOULD ANSWER AND HE COULD EXPLAIN WHY YOU KEEP TALKING
ABOUT GIVING THE GIRLS HOCKEY TEAM THE AXE.
October 5, 2007 at 1:42 pm
I (a Sauk Rapids resident and parent of 3 young children) was intrigued by the billboard between Rice and Sauk Rapids, although it wasn’t clear regarding the point to be conveyed. Why was the salary of our superintendent compared to that of our governor? If the intent was to convey that the superintendent’s salary is in excess to that of the norm, then why wasn’t the salary of other superintendents within an area/size/economic equivalent to that of Sauk Rapids/Rice compared instead of the governor? That would be like comparing the salary of the Chief of Police to that of the principal. If you want to convey a particular point then please provide a relevant comparison. This directed my curiosity to the website.
I was surprised by the personal attacks behind much of the information within this site. I do refer to this as “information” and not as “facts” simply because there is no supportive data to back any of the findings within this site (that I could find). I would challenge the person responsible for the content within this site to cite you sources. If you are looking to inform the public/community on much of what is listed within this website please provide the supporting sources or where it is derived from, that way it may be interpreted as facts vs. another editors column intended to push opinions and sway the perception of the uniformed.
There is obviously passion behind this website and the billboard on Hwy 10. As for the reason you find it necessary to attack the SRR school system, I think I have identified that through some of the comments within this site. I would ask as a Sauk Rapids resident and parent of 3 young children that will be in this school system to please provide facts and don’t push construed information upon the community. The operating levy is critical not only to the future of our school district but directly impacts the future education my children. If you have a personal vendetta against the superintendent please don’t let that impact my child’s future educational opportunities.
Regards.
October 5, 2007 at 2:22 pm
GREG DID YOU EVEN READ THE SITE? IT GIVES LINKS AND BACKS
UP EVERYTHING . MOST OF THE INFO IS PUBLIC RECORD.
I BELEAVE THE BRAINWASHING IS SO COMPLETE JUST KEEP GIVING
MORE AND MORE MONEY. THE PEOPLE ASKING FOR THE MONEY
KNOW ALL THEY HAVE TO SAY IS. IT IS FOR THE CHILDRENS EDUCATION. I BELEAVE THE BOARDWATCHER HAS SPENT SOME TIME
TO TRY TO INFORM BUT THE PEOPLE JUST CAN’T HERE THE
MESSAGE. THE ADMINISTRATION IS NOT SPENDING THE $$$
IN OUR CHILDRENS BEST INTEREST AND MAYBE THEY DON’T KNOW HOW TO..
October 5, 2007 at 3:45 pm
So am I being blocked because I listed that the billboard cost you about
$1,200.00/month ?
October 5, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Greg,
Your comment is much appreciated and we will provide a more complete response in another post as soon as possible. In the interim we would recommend that you and others browse the many links we have provided to our sources which are all publicly available. To the extent possible we’ve linked directly to these sources including the MN department of education, ISD47 web site, state auditors reports etc.
We understand your question regarding superintendent compensation and the apparent apples to oranges comparison and will discuss this in our next post.
Thanks for making the effort to provide your feedback.
October 5, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Jane,
Your post number 19 is the only thing we have seen from you. If you tried to send another post please try it again as we aren’t blocking enything.
October 5, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Jane,
You’re quite a bit on the high side, but close enough to conclude that we are more than casually interested in the future of this district. The first step to fixing a problem is acknowledging that there is one. We believe that our superintendent and board must be held accountable for student performance. On the contrary, what we see is increasing salaries, energy spent on P.S. Minnesota and decreasing student performance. We don’t begrudge anyone for earning a decent wage but at some point someone needs to say enough is enough. Particularly when the performance has not been there.
We encourage taxpayers to ask about any of the issues we have raised.
What is the plan that will get our students up to speed and ready to graduate in 2010?
October 5, 2007 at 10:30 pm
I have no idea who is behind this blog or behind the billboard on Hwy 10 just south of my entrance to the highway. But I do have the idea that who ever this is has a really personal issue with the superintendent. I see no mention about the welfare and interest of the children of our community in these blogs.
Sure - there is the comment about class size - the poster takes the full number of staff and divides that into the number of students - that is bogus. Most classrooms now have close to 30 students in the elementary grades. I am not a teacher in these schools. I am a supervisor of student teachers from SCSU. I work in many school districts. The class sizes in our district are similar to those in our neighboring districts who are also seeking a levy referendum this year.
After 20 years serving this community as a school board member, I need to tell you all that seeking a referendum is a measure of last resort. We supported Greg in PS Minnesota because we have believed that it is the state’s responsibility to support the basic eduation of the children of the state. MN has fallen far short of this constitutional duty in the past years. If we had wanted more money for frivolous things - such as suggested by the poster - we would have asked for a levy a long time ago. Instead, it has been our belief that we could work with our legislators to pony up to the state’s duty and increase funding for basic educational needs of all students in the state. Instead - we’ve gotten minimal increases - if any - not even enough to meet the rising cost of energy and other contractors who serve our students through district contracts.
I am no longer a school board member. My children are all grown - leaving the community with an outstanding education from the SRR schools. They are thriving, communtiy-contributing adults and parents who are grateful for their years in the SRR schools. I believe that the current children and families in our community deserve at least equal to the education our children received. (They rarely had the advantage of attending the new buildings we built through the years - but they didn’t need that - they just needed teachers and leaders who could help them learn. They also escaped all the onorous testing mandates! And they still are doing well.)
If the blogger would reveal his/her identity and be upfront about the issues that are stuck in his/her craw, maybe the rest of us could give some honest response.
There are all sorts of links given - some of the data is really outdated - i.e., the auditor’s report on superintendent salaries from 2003 - that’s 4 years ago! Things have changed. Personally, I know that Greg’s salary is less than that of the St Cloud Superintendent who has been there about 4 years, just about equal to that of the Sartell superintendent who has been there about 3 years and a little more than Rocori’s superintendent - so what - the size of the school district and the years of experience and the means of the district all enter in. The blog and billboard seem to indicate that whatever Greg is making is too much. Too much compared to the governor? That’s applying apples to oranges.
Get real. Come clean. Who are you and what are your real issues???
October 5, 2007 at 10:46 pm
One more comment. Since you seem intent on linking student performances on tests to the Superintendent’s salary, I’d suggest you read the NY Times article by Diane Ravitch that talks about the detrimental effect of NCLB (or state testing) on public schools. There are so many issues with this that the link between salary and test scores cannot hold up. This is certainly a spurious argument.
Here is the website for the article: It was published on Oct 3 2007 - an Op Ed piece - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/03/opinion/03ravitch.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
October 6, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Barb, you have posted my sentiments exactly. By voting down this levy we are only hurting the children of this district. We already have class sizes of 30 to 34 students per class. Way too many! We need to pass this levy so we can hire the teachers we need to decrease class sizes.
I still have one child in school. I have four out of school and I am grateful that they had a school like Sauk Rapids-Rice to attend.
We have many talented and caring teachers and staff who have the best interests of our children at heart. It hurts me to hear the concerns of the teachers who are trying their best to teach in these large classrooms. We are taxing and stressing our staff by giving them these kinds of numbers in their classrooms.
October 7, 2007 at 11:36 am
I SAY YES TO THIS LEVY AND OUR COMMUNITY!
Barb,
You are the person I beleive.
You have come with your name attached and you are willing to hold your head high and say. “I beleive in the people of Sauk Rapids”
We have chosen our people well and Greg is the most outstanding superintendent in the state of Minnesota.
I am proud to call this town home and to say we have the BEST Teachers and Superintendent around.
As for Test scores they mean CRAP. I say this because a test is no messure of what I have learned in life and I happen to have one child with severe test anxioty, so truely my child screws up the schools test performance.
What is with only worring about 2010 graduates?
I love the people of this district. The parents really care and always fight for the good of their children, the teachers make a differeance for the good and the superintendent is a Good role model who makes good dissisions for all the right reasons.
I VOTE YES!
October 11, 2007 at 10:22 am
Thanks for letting us see the “truth” behind these numbers. I laugh when I hear teachers complain about their salaries. WOuldn’t we all love to make an avg of $49,700 a year without working June, July and August and having several weeks of holiday and sick pay throughout the year as well. You would never survive in the corporate world… All of our healthcare has increased, and our employers don’t kick in the increase and we have all had wage cuts or freezes since 9/11, so feel fortunate that you receive the hours, pay and benefits that you do.
October 11, 2007 at 10:51 am
Hello parent of Rice, I agree 100% hope there is some more
people that can still understand more money does not seem
to be the answer. When we see where it is going, Greg V’s
bank account. I would like to point out Greg also gets
a vehicle bonus $300 a month. Just $3600 a year. He is
such a Great Guy. Why can’t he set example and cut his
bonus package back?
October 11, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Cut costs by cutting your overhead. My business has seen a
30 per cent staff reduction and no pay increases for the last 3 years. Of course we are not in a union and are able to make
the best personnel choices based on performance, not seniority as we now have in our schools. There are hundreds of unemployed teachers here in Minnesota, teachers are not hard to find or replace. They are overpaid.
Property taxes are only going to go up a couple of hundred?
Put that on top of the huge increase a few years back for the
new school and remodel. Wish my wages were going up as fast.
Maybe SR could use a professional business manager to manage this multi million dollar business. It sure could not hurt.
October 11, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Terry,
Couldn’t have said it better.
October 11, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Amen Terry! That’s the problem…accountability. What happens with the extra funds when enrollment is down? Is it given back to the taxpayers? No. We have nowhere near the security within our jobs that education professionals do, we better work harder and smarter each year or we’ll simply be unemployed! The district also has quite a few volunteer programs with parents and grandparents both helping out. More money isn’t the answer….it’s sticking to the budget, managing it better and accountability.
October 11, 2007 at 1:18 pm
This has been very interesting reading. I especially enjoy the comments. People feel very strongly about this issue. I find it rather absurd that anyone can argue that paying an additional $200 or so for the education of EVERY student in our district is a bad investment. There are parents choosing to homeschool and send their children to private schools at the rate of thousands of dollars a year to give their children a chance at a better education, smaller class sizes and more personal attention. In comparison, this is a very small investment in the future of our entire community. The teachers and administrators who take on the responsibility for our children everyday deserve every penny they make and more. People who work in the corporate world do not have the immense responsibility to the public that our schools take on every day. We have the responsibility as members of the community (not just as parents of children in the schools) to support them financially and emotionally. I recommend that everyone take some time to send a thank you note to our superintendent, school board, and teachers to let them know that we appreciate and support them. And then get out and vote YES to the levy!
October 11, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Education the way it is run now is a black hole. You can never throw enough money into it. I am glad Sara that 200 bucks to you means nothing. My property taxes in SR would be almost a thousand dollars higher with this new levy. I would happily kick in a mere 200 but this will not end. In 3 or 4 years the school will be back for more. I wish I could run a company this poorly and still stay in business.
I am voting no, not because of the 200 but because of the overall poor performance of the school. We need changes here in Sauk Rapids from the top down.
October 11, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Most of the property taxes people will pay due to the levy will be refunded by the state, who should rightfully be putting our tax dollars toward our children’s education in the first place.
In any business, higher revenues mean an improved business. Unfortunately the only revenue our public schools have are tax dollars and we the people need to tell the government that our taxes should go toward education.
October 11, 2007 at 1:52 pm
And 200 bucks can mean a lot to some of our students in large classes. If you put on your rose colored glasses, you could choose to feel fortunate that you are in a position to contribute more to the betterment of our school!
October 11, 2007 at 3:41 pm
# 31 Parent in Rice
When enrollment is down the tax payer dosen’t pay!
The school can only get 700/student that is a district resident and enrolls in the SR-R schools.
October 11, 2007 at 3:51 pm
#33 Terry,
WOW you must have some kind of a house!
I wish I made as much as you.
My house is valued at $500,000 and my taxes will only go up $668 I looked it up!
October 11, 2007 at 4:04 pm
It would be interesting to plot these variables against each other:
District per-pupil spending vs MCA test scores (2001 - present)
I am willing to be that you will find an inverse correlation between student achievement and increased spending.
October 11, 2007 at 4:05 pm
I also would be interested in knowing the number of district FTEs per student over a 10-year range.
October 11, 2007 at 4:36 pm
The Minnesota Constitution mandates the state finance 2 things. Public Schools and Roadways. Without an intelligent and well-educated workforce, and a reliable transportation infrastructure to move goods and services our state will not be competitive.
These 2 things have been on the decline in our state for several years now, and is something our elected officials have been ignoring.
A Yes vote on the levy puts Sauk Rapids/Rice students back on a better path, and gives us a chance to invest in the future of this state. These kids ARE the future!
A No vote for our incumbent officials come re-election will be my message to them to get the state’s priorities back in order.
October 12, 2007 at 8:18 am
Griz,
You are right. I Vote Yes!
Why? Because without the increase there will be no way to improve math scores. We will be stuck with the same program we have now with no means to change it.
Then there is the youngest of the children.
I was in a class of 30 1st graders and let me tell you we had the largest remedial reading class. I honestly never liked reading and had trouble with comprehention until I personally PAID for a reading course in college. Until after taking this course I always felts stupid. I only got into college from the back door, and on top of all this I felt ANGRY, NEGLECTED, LEFT BEHEIND.
We have to not let this be their future!
We need this levy!
October 12, 2007 at 11:03 am
Spending per student in Minnesota Public schools is now approaching $15000 per student. This is from all sources,Federal,State and Local property taxes. How about going to a voucher system and let the parents decide on where the best education system is for there children? Now you have a government run monopoly. And we all know how well the government runs anything. It is like taking blood from your left arm and putting into your right arm and spilling 25 per cent along the way. Eventually you are bled dry.
You want smaller class size, go to a private school, with a voucher system you could make the choice.
October 12, 2007 at 11:28 am
Terry, I would agree that the levy is a bandaid solution to bigger problems in the system of funding education. But it’s the system we’re currently dealing with and a bandaid is needed for the good of our community. Killing this levy will only cause harm for the children of SRR today. De-valuing the educational staff and administration is also counterproductive. They are not the ones dishing out the money, they’re just doing the best job they can with what they’ve got.
October 12, 2007 at 11:55 am
I am not knocking the educational staff, just the system and how poorly it is run. Why not open up your children’s educational horizons by giving them the opportunity to attend a school that gives them a better overall education? Why can’t parents make that choice instead of having it made for you?
Competition in private industry has led to better products and leaner running companies. Would that not also hold true in our school system? For 15000 per year I could send my kids to St. Johns and include room and board.
October 12, 2007 at 12:08 pm
Terry,
You have the choice.
If you want a voucher system guess what? Your private schools will have to provide special ed and speech and also have their kids take the MCA’s and live up to standards.
Right now when a child goes to a private school levy money does not go with and it does not go to the public school either. The local taxpayers don’t pay.
Also the public school must provide special education services along with speech for any child in our district including private schools.
So after the private sector has to do all this I beileve they will be even more expensive.
Besides there is no data to show private schools perform better that public.
October 12, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Competition is bad and government run monopoly is good. Got it, thanks Miffed.
October 12, 2007 at 12:45 pm
In efforts to keep the facts as close as possible we took a quick look at the department of education web site which reports 829,184 Minnesota students and also the Minnesota Finance Department that reports $9.8B for total cost resulting in approximately $11,800 per student in total cost. Not quite $15,000 but not far off.
http://www.budget.state.mn.us/budget/summary/pog/070228_pog.pdf
http://education.state.mn.us/ReportCard2005/schoolDistrictInfo.do?SCHOOL_NUM=000&DISTRICT_NUM=9999&DISTRICT_TYPE=99
October 12, 2007 at 12:52 pm
For perspective, we also checked the cost of tuition at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis and found:
Student cost: $7950
State Subsidy: $4277
Total Tuition per year: $12,227
In fairness the cost for K-12 does include transportation and the lunch programs that are not reflected in UM tuition bills.
http://www.onestop.umn.edu/onestop/Tuition_Billing/Tuition_Rates.html
http://www.onestop.umn.edu/onestop/img/assets/9061/TuitionFactSheet07-08.pdf
October 12, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Don’t forget the cost of K-12 also includes special education, second language learners, speech and health. College cost does not.
When 13% is special education that seems like they are doing a pretty good job.
I know there are things they need to improve on but isn’t all life a work in progress? Because when it stops being so then we call it death.
May we all continue to work for the greater good.
October 13, 2007 at 8:46 am
My family moved to the SSR school district a short time ago. I was surprised to hear that they did not have an operating levy in place already. It is not as if SSR is the only school district in the state asking for more money. This is a state wide necessity to properly educate our children. Test scores do not show the whole story. Are the current scores disturbing, of course, but having my child in a class of almost 30 and trying to learn to read and add is not going to improve the test scores.
If find the comparison to the U of M ironic since only 13.6% of the population in Rice have a bachelor’s degree and only 19.6% of the population in SR has a bachelor’s degree. This is well below the state average of 33%. Seems to me that many people in this community do not understand the importance of a good education or how to properly fund one. My goal is to have my children join the 33%.
If this levy does not pass my children will no longer attend SSR. Why? Because I refuse to sit back and allow them to suffer because a bunch of people who do not understand school funding are willing vote this necessary levy down because of their own personal vendettas.
October 13, 2007 at 10:39 am
dmsmom…..You are making several very good points. You are one of the few commentors who have focused on the real issue. What do we need to do to get our community into or exceeding the 33%. Where we differ in opinion is on the path to this objective.
In our posts we have primarily argued that the administration has not done the job at insuring the success of the academic program. Right or wrong, without the test performance, particularly in the upper grades, students are limited in their future successes. Remember our superintendent has been in place 12 years, the full academic career of the very students that are now struggling to achieve.
Regarding the levy, we are critical that the district’s primary justification for the property tax levy is that “everyone else has one”. Remember your mother asking “If Jimmy jumped off the bridge would you do it too?” This line of reasoning is not enough.
We believe the district needs to provide the taxpayer with a concrete academic and spending plan on how we as a community are going to turn the academic achievment issues around. “Give us more and we’ll do better” is not good enough. Note we say community because the expectations for achievement must come from home.
We also need specific information regarding what new programs are intended. Will we soon be funding all day kindergarten and preschool on the taxpayer dime. We have heard enough whisperings that we are concerned about this. We believe parents should be allowed to raise their own kids. This is not Russia yet.
In addition we need real assurance that we will not soon be back in this same position financially. Based on the current contracts that are in place, we beleive labor costs will out strip the increased budget long before the 10 years is up for this levy. This is a systematic problem that must be dealt with sooner or later. The current union contracts, combined witht the age distribution of teachers, are having direct negative impacts on class room size and the district’s ability to appropriately provide staff. This needs to at least be honestly disclosed and should be corrected.
We believe that if the district wants a yes vote these issues need to be discussed front and center. The district is bent on discussing the broken state funding system, yet this is only part of the problem.
Regarding the state funding system, we believe that voting in the property tax levys only serves to enable the status quo to contiue. Until property owners start to say no, the state will have no incentive to correct the situation. A yes vote enables the state to continue to defer the inevitable.
Honestly do these issues sound like personal vendettas? If our superintendent is not responsible for the academic program then who is?
October 13, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Miffed, Fair enough. We agree that the cost of UM education is not an apples to apples number but rather just a way to put the cost of K-12 into some type of perspective.
October 13, 2007 at 3:54 pm
what happened to the money we had let over from last school year? or was there not any??
October 13, 2007 at 3:57 pm
was there a bus garage purchased by or district ??..if so why??
October 14, 2007 at 8:03 am
I think you are wrong about the people at the capital especially the Govenor. I have had conversation after conversation with these people and they beleive they can not raise taxes because that is what the people want. In trueth we all want that but it is not possible if we are to move forward.
Well it seems to me if all these levys start to pass we can ram that down their throats and say to them “See we want better schools and are willing to pay for them.”
I personally do not want people to make claims of doing things with this levy money that may be unwise when the future hits. Do I want them to promise to make sure class sizes are smaller? Sure do and they have.
Do I want math scores to go up? Sure do and I bet they do too.
Will they go up with out the Levy? Hell no. Why? because there will be no money to change any of our curricullum.
dmsmom,
You sound like one smart mom. I hope we don’t lose your kids in our schools because loseing parents that care could be the biggest tradgidy that comes out of all this if our levy fails.
October 14, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Miffed….First, thanks for staying with the discussion as long as you have. One major issue is a lack of interest in these issues with the exception of when the tax dollars are on the line and you don’t seem to fall into that category.
One assumption that underlies our difference in opinion is that the current systematic issues cannot be changed. We believe that a major problem is the districts inability to manage labor costs due to the strangling union contracts.
Unless it is possible to manage staff based on actual need rather than strictly by seniority it will be impossible to improve the quality of education. We believe voting yes endorses this labor practice and insures the same problems down the road.
We have a glut of teachers in general yet our work force is at the upper end of the pay scale due to their level of seniority. This is a primary contributor to driving costs over budget.
October 15, 2007 at 8:48 am
boardwatcher…
I appreciate your reply. I am not sure how you are comparing all day kindergarten to Russia?? I am confused about that comment. My son attended all day kindergarten last year (I payed $200+ per month for that service). I certainly do not think the school is “raising” my child. My son attended all day/every day because I thought he needed it after preschool proved to be difficult for him acedemically and socially. It had nothing to do with my desire for the school to raise my child. Research has demonstrated the benefits of all-day, every day kindergarten. In fact, it has also been proven that there is higher academic achievement and reduced remedial education costs directly related to all day/every day. Do I think all/day everyday should be a priority for our school district at this point? No. I think the priority needs to reduce the class sizes so our children have more time directly with the teacher.
I don’t know if you have spent much time in the schools to speak about what the day-to-day reality is, but I do. The rooms are so crowded that it is difficult to even move comfortably around the room. The teachers are dealing with special education students, students with medical issues, students who come to school with no money in the lunch account, students who have not done their homework, etc… There are many issues in the classroom and with 28-35+ students in each class, how are any of them getting the attention they deserve on a daily basis to learn the basics of math and reading
My argument is not that we need this levy “because everyone else has one.” It is just simply a fact. Almost all other school districts have more money per student than SSR. Does more money equal a better education? To be honest I don’t know the answer. However, I do know that more money equals more teachers, more technology, and more programs. Research has shown that students in kindergarten and first grade learn best with 17 children per classroom. My son has 28. Twenty-eight first graders in one classroom is not acceptable to me. Please visit the school and count for yourself. 17 is not happening in SSR.
I am not interested in continuing to send my children to a school that has crowded classrooms, that does not even have the money to purchase math books, that does not even have the funds to stay out of statutory operating debt. I will vote “yes” despite my strong desire to control government and school spending. I will vote “yes” because my children need a good education right now.
I urge your group to continue to ask these questions even after the levy vote is over. Accountability is a good thing. It is just the timing that I question.
October 15, 2007 at 9:31 am
dmsmom…We disagree on very little. However, we strongly believe the district needs to specifically identify the root causes of our curent situation and spell out how this situation will be avoided in the future. In particular, why are class sizes so large? It is not exclusively due to funding and the district needs to come to grips with this reality. Why has this become such an emergency situation? Could the district not see this coming several years ago and start planning?
We believe the district knew full well that the union contracts would outstrip the budget and rather than take action when negotiating the 2005/2006 contracts they just let this continue. They put our kids at risk in a high stakes gamble that we would come up with the bucks rather than take a stronger position in those union contract negotiations. Now it’s a big surprise that we suddenly need more money.
Regarding timing, it is very unfortunate that it is nearly impossible to get people to think about education other than when they are being asked to open their wallets. It is equally difficult to get the attention of district administrators other than when they need money.
We do not like this situation any better than you do.
Point taken on Russia….There are plenty of valid reasons to send kids to preschool or all day kindergarten. But we also recognize there are those that would like to make this part of the taxpayer funded mandate and we disagree with that idea. That is why we ask the district directly what their intentions are for early childhood programs.
Last, Take a look at today’s post as we haven’t ruled out a yes either. We just think it needs to come with some strong conditions…..
October 15, 2007 at 10:04 am
Not sure what you mean by “look at today’s post”. Where would I find this section or am I misunderstanding something?
October 15, 2007 at 10:14 am
Go to the top and click on the home tab. Or look at the recent posts list at the upper right.
Also, We understand that the numbers are not 17 in each class, but according to the MN Department of Education we do have 17 kids per teacher in our district. We think the district needs to explain why the actual class room sizes that we are experiencing are so large. The district needs to identify the cause so voters can evaluate if more money will substantively change things.
http://education.state.mn.us/ReportCard2005/districtStaffing.do?SCHOOL_NUM=000&DISTRICT_NUM=0047&DISTRICT_TYPE=01
October 15, 2007 at 11:10 am
Thanks…found it and actually found the list of questions to be reasonable. Hopefully you will get answers to these specific questions. I also found the link helpful.
October 15, 2007 at 10:26 pm
Let the truth be told. A neighbor of mine is a teacher for IDS 47 all he can do is cry to the neighbors that if this levy doesen’t go through he won’t be able to buy this and that. He never once mentioned the children in the community how this levy increase would benefit them. Because it’s really not about them it’s about them!!!!! and doctor VAN!!
October 16, 2007 at 10:36 am
Questions2…Good questions…we don’t know about either of these issues you raise, but we encourage you and others to attend the October 22, meeting to ask.
October 16, 2007 at 7:47 pm
IDS47 has a few things incommon. Their math stats suck, the math teachers are poor math teachers. The super van dale does’nt know how to calulate the numbers together to balance the budget. Lets give them a levy they deserve it!!
October 16, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Get Real….We don’t see this as a problem with the teachers themselves. Teachers aren’t free to choose curriculum or make certain that students are exposed to the right material early enough. These are choices made by administrators. We see the current situation as a systematic problem that the administration is responsible for and needs to acknowledge and correct.
November 20, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Ok. Here’s a few things I know for sure. My first grade daughter (Mississippi Heights) is in a class of 34 kids with one teacher. There is a paraprofessional in her class that is assigned to a few of the handicapped children. I, of course, am concerned about this class size. I did see the comment earlier in this forum about a student teacher ratio of 17:1. That does not appear to hold true in the classroom setting. Remember that kids with special needs require alot more attention and there are even some who require a paraprofessional 1:1.
That said I voted against the levy in Sauk Rapids. I do not believe the district superintendent made a good case for it. I have no problem with the man making a good salary. Hell, I’d be willing to see him make more. But with that kind of salary and all his credentials he needs to come up with a good explanation about why the district can’t make ends meet. I do not see where the district has made attempts to find alternatives to the tax increase.
I grew up in Sauk Rapids and attended Sauk Rpaids schools from K-12. My father grew up in Sauk Rapids. For those of you who are new to the area, let me fill you in. I cannot remember a time where the school district in this town was not asking for a new shool or more money. Always holding over taxpayers heads that if we dont vote yes, we’re abandoning our children. I do not believe for one minute that growth in the area and increased enrollment is unforeseen. The community pays a healthy salary to the superintendent to use his education and experience to come up with solutions and to prepare for growth. If he and the district have failed to act responsibly, I think it’s time for a change in the leadership.
November 21, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Regarding the student teacher ratio. We too are curious why the department of education reports 223 Full time Equivalent teachers per 3800 or so students yet the class sizes are consistently much larger than the apparent 17:1 ratio. Where are these teachers?